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Post by rebeccaki116 on Dec 3, 2012 19:03:05 GMT -5
Does Dimmesdale deserve Chillingworth's punishment? The evolution of Chillingworth into a person who thrives on the suffering he causes Dimmesdale, leaves me wondering why he doesn't inflict the same pain on Hester. Yes Hester is suffering publicly, but suffering alone is far worst a punishment. So then, why does Chillingworth wish to go out of his way to make the minister suffer more than Hester? Could he still be in love with her? Is he power driven by the control he has over Dimmesdale?  |
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Post by edwinge112 on Dec 3, 2012 22:08:46 GMT -5
Chillingworth said that the scales were balanced between the 2 of them early on in the novel. He believes he did Hester wrong too. But he cannot forgive Dimmesdale for not taking the blame with Hester, and just leaving her there to take all the blame and punishment. That's why he is so fixated on Dimmesdale's punishment. He won't reveal Dimmesdale to the public, so he carries out the punishment in another way. But I do think he was corrupted along the way in his quest for vengeance. He transformed into a demon, a devil as he would admit himself.
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Post by annata112 on Dec 4, 2012 16:23:41 GMT -5
Chillingworth thought that because Hester was suffering in public that Dimmesdale was getting off easy so he thought he would punish him. As the story develops Chillingworth becomes more and more devilish, and I think that's why he continues to eat away at Dimmesdale even though he seems to be tortured more than Hester. I don't think it's really revenge, because Chillingworth knows that he wasn't there to take care of Hester, he just wants to make sure Dimmesdale isn't getting off easy.
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Post by laurenno116 on Dec 4, 2012 16:26:30 GMT -5
I think that Chillingworth does not punish Hester because he knows that he has wronged her as well. He believes that they are even. However Chillingworth blames Dimmesdale for letting Hester take all the blame for their sin. Due to his reasoning, I think that there is a part of Dimmesdale that does care for Hester. I do not think that Chillingworth is in love with her, in fact I am not sure he was ever in love with her, rather the idea of having a wife like her - beautiful and youthful. As far as Dimmesdale is concerned, I think that Dimmesdale punishes himself more than anyone else ever could. I think that even if Chillingworth reveals Dimmesdale to the public, Dimmesdale will still be greatly affected by it, and yet I think that he will always be harder on himself than anyone else ever could.
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Post by meganp112 on Dec 4, 2012 19:36:56 GMT -5
Although I do feel bad for Dimmesdale, I feel that he deserves to be punished in a sense. By refusing to come out and tell everyone the truth for fear of his reputation, he is creating more trouble for himself. As the play progresses, one can see that Hester is dealing much better with her sin because it is not a a secret. So Dimmesdale's punishment is necessary in order to show him the dangers of not being open about his sin.
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Post by jingyanxi116 on Dec 4, 2012 21:03:40 GMT -5
It doesn't seem likely that Chillingworth is still in love with Hester, as they weren't really fit for each other anyway, and Chillingworth acknowledges that earlier in the novel. I don't think Dimmesdale deserves Chillingworth's punishment, because punishment is supposed to teach the one being punished something, and it seems more for Chillingworth's satisfaction than to benefit Dimmesdale at all. Dimmesdale's punishment for himself reinforces the message of the consequences of committing sin (guilt), but as Dimmesdale isn't even aware that Chillingworth is 'punishing' him (he only has a sense that Chillingworth isn't a good person), the 'punishment' doesn't seem valid.
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Post by rebeccapl116 on Dec 5, 2012 21:13:59 GMT -5
In response to the Dimsdale not confessing to save his reputation I'm a bit unsure. Even more so than his reputation I think that Dimsdale knows that if the town sees that the most esteemed and holy man in society has sinned, the entire society will collapse. Although I do feel bad for Dimmesdale, I feel that he deserves to be punished in a sense. By refusing to come out and tell everyone the truth for fear of his reputation, he is creating more trouble for himself. As the play progresses, one can see that Hester is dealing much better with her sin because it is not a a secret. So Dimmesdale's punishment is necessary in order to show him the dangers of not being open about his sin. |
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Post by rebeccatr116 on Dec 7, 2012 19:11:20 GMT -5
Chillingworth's punishment is operative here. Chillingworth was imposing a punishment of psychological torture upon a man whose chronic illness was a punishment in itself, for what Dimmesdale acknowledged was his sin. Dimmesdale was clearly repentant (illustrated by his self-flagellation and ascending the scaffold), and did not require the further abuse of Chillingworth, who was motivated by selfishness, whereas Dimmesdale's self-inflicted psychosomatic punishment was motivated by remorse and love for Hester.
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Post by 14elesvik on Dec 8, 2012 15:19:26 GMT -5
Regarding your comment that Chillingworth is torturing Dimmesdale because he has feelings for Hester...I respectfully disagree. Chillingworth himself said he only married Hester b/c it was his duty; he said he did it b/c it was social expectations. All Chillingworth cares about is learning. Both Dimmesdale and Hester are suffering alone, but Hester has to face the community and Dimmesdale has to face his sin/hypocrisy (which is magnified by Chillingworth)
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Post by rebeccapl116 on Dec 12, 2012 21:26:18 GMT -5
Going off of what Vikranth just said, Chillingworth's only motive is to peruse justice. Of course, it gets out of control which is Hawthorne's point about sin. Dimsdale does not deserve to be tortured to death for a sin that he committed. We are meant to learn from our sins as opposed to be punished for them; the pursuit of this punishment lead to Chillingworth to become the Devil and Dimsdale to his death.
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Post by laurensc116 on Dec 13, 2012 20:41:21 GMT -5
I agree with what was said regarding that Chillingworth believes that it is unfair for Dimmesdale to not take any of the blame with Hester, and therefore pursues him in an effort to achieve justice from Dimmesdale's 'freedom.' However, I feel that after a certain extent, Dimmesdale no long deserved the punishment he was receiving because even though he was yet to confess, it could be argued that he was suffering more than Hester. Hester made a slow, but steady recovery in society and becam regarded as loved, to the extent that the community saw the 'A' as representing 'Able.' However, Dimmesdale's misery was slowly killing him throughout this process. Therefore, since I ultimately think that Dimmesdale suffered more than Hester by the end, he was not deserving of the full extent of his punishment.
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Post by sandych116 on Dec 16, 2012 17:29:15 GMT -5
I definitely agree with Rebecca, I feel as if Dimmesdale punishments on himself would have been sufficient enough to make up for his one sin. Chillingsworth took it too far considering he does not even love Hester, but Dimmesdale does. The sin committed between Dimmesdale and Hester was only natural between two lovers. Personally, I don't think Dimmesdale deserved such a harsh punishment that was cruel enough for him to die since the sin wasn't committing murder or anything, it was an act of love. It caused no one harm. Chillingworth's punishment is operative here. Chillingworth was imposing a punishment of psychological torture upon a man whose chronic illness was a punishment in itself, for what Dimmesdale acknowledged was his sin. Dimmesdale was clearly repentant (illustrated by his self-flagellation and ascending the scaffold), and did not require the further abuse of Chillingworth, who was motivated by selfishness, whereas Dimmesdale's self-inflicted psychosomatic punishment was motivated by remorse and love for Hester. |
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Post by juliana112 on Dec 19, 2012 17:53:07 GMT -5
I agree that Chillingworth's punishment might have been extreme since Dimmesdale was already punishing himself, but I do see his justification behind his psychological torture of Dimmesdale, even if it was for selfish reasons. Chillingworth leaves Hester in the New World for only two years, and the first thing he witnesses upon his return is his wife standing upon a scaffold, pregnant and wearing the A? I believe he wanted Dimmesdale to suffer as much as Hester was suffering, so he let the guilt literally kill Dimmesdale instead of publicly outing him as an adulterer to the community. Chillingworth succeeded in that sense, since I believe that Dimmesdale suffered more than Hester, but Chillingworth was disappointed when Dimmesdale outed himself because that meant he would not be able to torture him any longer.
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